Absent Sounds: Hello, my name is Weadee and my name's Weajue and you are currently tuned into another episode of Absent Sounds here on CJAM 99.1 FM Reaching Higher Ground in Windsor and Detroit. Today we are diving into a special record that just came out last week or whatever this airs. It might have been a few weeks, but on May 10th. And it is Pure Gluttony. Yes, we are gonna be playing through that album from top to bottom today as is ritual here on Absent Sounds where each week we take two albums to dive into, and as we dive into them, we give you any interesting tidbits, stories, fun facts along the way. Yes, and like we said, it's a special week because we are joined by Jackson, who wrote the album under the pseudonym of Brutus

Jackson:Eight.

Absent Sounds: Yes. So, hi Jackson, how are you?

Jackson:I'm good. I just moved to a new apartment, so I'm just moving in, unpacking, getting settled, that sort of thing.

Absent Sounds: Why'd you move?

Jackson:This great apartment, this great studio, not studio, one bedroom apartment opened up for a reasonable price and I've always wanted to live alone. I was with roommates before who were lovely, but I felt I was, had to, had to pounce on the opportunity.

Absent Sounds: Yeah, it does look beautiful from what we can see

Jackson:This is my little studio slash bedroom and, and then another, other room. But yeah, they're nice light.

Absent Sounds: We love to see great lighting.

Jackson:Very important.

Absent Sounds: Alright, so to get into the story of how Brutus started, well Brutus VIII, just take us all the way back as far as you want. You could start last week. You could start from your childhood. When did you first begin?

Jackson:So this project started sort of in high school. That's where I came up with the name and stuff. And I think it was just sort of a, a moniker to sort of just make my little demos and have a name for them. I was playing in other bands and stuff, playing drums and, and pretty involved in the music scene. But I was not really comfortable releasing my own music, my own solo stuff. So yeah, I kind of just would burn these little CDs of my demos and stuff and give them to my trusted friends at the time. Then over time, just from playing drums mainly and in a bunch of different bands and touring, I started to kind of want to express myself individually. I also wanted to take a shot at, being a fronting a band in a project. And as all this is happening, I was getting better at recording myself and sort of writing songs. So yeah, kind of slowly but surely, the Brutus thing started becoming more active and yeah.

Absent Sounds: Where did it come from? When you were thinking, “hmm, Brutus, I really love Brutus.” Are you brutal?

Jackson:I'm not, I think I'm pretty gentle. But I think that the live shows- you know, it's funny, I don't know if it was totally conceptualized at this point as at the point that I was, that I named it, but I definitely wanted to be somebody else doing it. I didn't want to just be Jackson even though a lot of the songs are from a personal place and have been forever, I always felt I wanted sort of this other persona, and I think that's kind of how, sort of a darker persona than the real me or maybe the darker side of me. I think the live shows ended up kind of reflecting that they're definitely more confrontational and brutal. So yeah, I think initially I was drawn to the name because I d that Brutus in the Roman Empire was the betrayer. And I know there's just always sort of this negative connotation when it comes to Brutus that he stabbed his friend in the back and yeah, I remember being in history class and just being , and that's cool. I think also with a lot of things I just liked the way the word looked. If you look at the literal shapes, and I think that's also sort of where the eight comes from. Like, the triple I next to it. It just looks nice. Yeah, it's a even number to flip it sideways. It's infinity. It just feels good, you know?

Absent Sounds: It's nice and even, yeah. I think that's a good reason to pick a name. I was gonna say, you know, align your life by things that are aesthetically pleasing. That's how I feel I've gone by.

Jackson:Yeah. Well, especially a band name, from being in bands for so long, everybody kind of regrets their name if you do it at for a certain point. Most people I know are like “ugh, I wish I didn't choose that name.” And so I even kind of knew that at the time and thought, okay, if I could just go for a name that I like the literal look of it phonetically, or not phonetically, but the shapes that maybe I'll, I could like it forever. And, you know, that was when I was 15 and I'm 27 now and I still like it, so, but I'm doing all right. At least band name wise.

Absent Sounds: What was the worst band name that you can remember from when you were in a band?

Jackson: When I was really young, really, really young and I can't knock myself out or my, my band name at the time we were like, probably, 12, maybe 11, The Feel Good is pretty rough. We were called The Feel Goods.

Absent Sounds: I can see it sounds very indie pop, summer.

Jackson:Yeah. It sounds I don't know, sound like Grouplove or something- no shade. That's great for what it is. I would say that that might be one of the rougher ones.

Absent Sounds: I know you're talking about the other side of yourself in a way. And so I guess just taking a chance to talk about the new cover art that you have why this one? Why boxing? Why an octopus or whatever that is on this one?

Jackson:Again, I would say first and foremost, I just love how it looks. I think the record deals and this whole project kind of deals with themes of masculinity and being slightly confused by my own masculinity, not in a gender dysphoria way necessarily, but in a way of like growing up in this day and age you know. I was kind of told from a pretty young age that I'm a man and men do pretty terrible things and there's no arguing with that. So you're sort of, as a man pretty much the beginning, you're sort of like “I'm not bad. I don't do that.” And so it's, yeah, I guess in a lot of ways the project is an exploration of that on and off. You know, it's not every song's about that, but, I think that, this record definitely deals with those themes. So I wanted a boxer, 'cause I felt that was a masculine presence. I was trad masculine. It's boxer red gloves, you know? Like Rocky, you know. The octopus is kind of about the other themes of the record, which is kind of the end of the world, you know? I mean, I wrote this record, a lot of records are kind of about the end of the world 'cause I'm paranoid. I wrote this record coming right out of Covid, and just seeing everything kind of go down. It was right after I moved to New York from LA as well, and LA I'm sure a lot of other places was really dark for a while. I felt like with Covid and everything else that was going on at the time, the city just kind of crumbled in a weird way. At least morale did and certain aspects of the city. Yeah just really felt like weird times, and I sort of am using that octopus to sort of represent that sort of the kraken, this sort of like doom monster. I can't honestly say that it was really thought out to that extent, the whole cover, but I just knew I had the Kraken, which was the end of days. I just knew the Kraken was the end of days. The boxer was my masculine figure. And you know, in a lot of ways I think they're related. So yeah. That's kind of where the cover came from.

Absent Sounds: And talking about the masculine part, it does almost capture this self-destructive nature that I think you also to touch on throughout the record, with specifically building a bomb. That was kind of one of the things that jumped out at us when we were listening to it. I'll just start off by asking- do you have a self-destructive streak in your life?

Jackson: Not in any violent way. Okay. I mean, like I eat, I'm lactose intolerant. I eat cheese and I smoke a lot of cigarettes and I know that it's really bad for me, but I do it a lot and then I beat myself up for it. But other than that, no, not really. I would say that song is satire, you know, and I understand it's scary. It's a scary song. That's the point, but it's also a joke. The lyrics of the second verse are “we're going to the mall so we can match as we torture.” It's supposed to be kind of funny, like dark way. So yeah, no, not really. Not not in any sort of building a bomb kind of way.

Absent Sounds: We wanted to ask, well, I don't even know if you did any research or anything as you were writing this, but do you think that if anyone, the FBI was looking looking at your song or just looking through your browser history as you were doing this album?

Jackson:we've talked about that a lot because while making the song and planning the video, we were sending texts constantly that are saying , I'm sure I'm on a list now. You know? but I feel , I don't know, I'm definitely on a list now if , we're all being watched and surveilled all the time anyway, through our phones and through this, through Zoom. I know. Whatever. They can. I'm saying here, it's satire. I'm a nice good boy from Southern California.

Absent Sounds: Don’t take him.

Jackson:Yeah. And also if anybody's listening who's a fan or something- that song is a joke. I fully understand the subject matter. And you know, it's also a fear response. I am also so afraid of domestic terrorism, I have a lot of irrational fears and that fear doesn't really feel that irrational anymore because there is , not to go so dark here, but there is so much violence that's happening all the time. And mass shootings and stuff, and I'm living in New York. You're kind of public all the time walking around and yeah, I'm really scared. So that's kind of also what that song is about.

Absent Sounds: Yeah. That also I guess, ties into the aspect, even being an artist in the digital age, how do you balance that? I don't know if there's really such a thing as being a reclusive artist as much in the deal of general age. I read that you got inspired by Mao II. Do you keep it separate, private?

Jackson: I mean, I haven't really had to because I mean, the project is not that big so no one's coming up to me in the street. I'm not Billie Eilish. So there's been no need for anything. And plus my ego is too big. If there was, I would just pull it up. I do love, that's part of Mao II, I love that story of- there are these two sort of younger kids, not really kids, they're in their twenties, I think maybe late twenties, thirties, that are sort of keeping this older writer, out of the public eye per his request and sort of managing his affairs, and I just think that's really interesting and cool. I mean that's not the stuff that inspired me about Mao II for the record were, were that, but also were, you know, the rest of the story is this writer, he starts to feel like art doesn't really move people anymore. And the only way to really move somebody is through domestic terrorism. And then, you know, without ruining the book, he goes to the Middle East where there's a conflict happening to be , I'm gonna, I want to be in it. You know like, I wanna see the crap go down. I'm not cursing because the radio.

Absent Sounds: thank you for saving us

Jackson:Without ruin the book he learns that, you know. He's a writer and this is real scary stuff that he can't handle. I thought that was just a really interesting story and turn of events and that's kind of how I feel in a lot of ways about a lot of activism. I think in a lot of ways it's so important and so crucial to change and, and be getting a lot of great things done, but at the same time, I think a lot of people are kind of performative and maybe won't really put their money where their mouth is a lot of the time. Sometimes they should, sometimes they shouldn't, you know? but yeah, I guess that's, that's kind of how it was inspired by that.

Absent Sounds: No, I feel we’ve had those conversations a lot, a lot. Especially Weajue and I were talking about it just last night, how it feels like a lot of times it is this performative measure you know, to say that you're doing something, but it's not really. Not to say it's not doing anything, but are you trying to get the, bring the attention to yourself or bring the attention to something else

Jackson:Right, right. And exactly, I think there's the cynic, but there are people that are just doing it for the right reasons and are trying to really get somewhere. But I do think there's a lot of people that are just wanting attention and stuff and you know, I get it, I'm a musician artist, I love attention. I totally get it. But don't use a cause or something terrible happening to benefit yourself. You know? I think that's pretty gross.

Absent Sounds: Yeah. Also just bring it back to Don DeLilo we read White Noise and it was, it's a really good book too. I just loved how he looks at death. And I guess that's one of those questions or those topics that people kind of most spend their time avoiding. I'm doing a little nice segue into track number three “I didn't ask” 'cause you know we tend not to ask about people's death or dying or, fears about living. but what are some crucial questions that you've avoided asking in life or other people yourself?

Jackson:Oh, God, that's a good question. What have I avoided asking? It's definitely nothing about death. That's all I've ever asked myself and anyone else because, I’ve got issues, but, what have I avoided asking? I feel there's probably a lot of questions about myself that I don't wanna know the answer to about my personality or something. It's this great scene in the movie Greenberg. It's a Noah Obama movie. It's really good. It's really funny. It's a Noah Bombach movie with Ben Stiller and he plays , just a neurotic, washed up musician. But he asks his friend “what do people say about me when I'm not around?” And his friend is likw, what are you talking about? And he's like, what do people say? What do they actually say? And he lies to him or something, I forget. But yeah, it's probably stuff like that. I so desperately wanna know how I come across and who I am and at the same time I so desperately don't want to know because then I would just be freaking out…'cause I'm a freak.

Absent Sounds: I actually thought you were gonna say that when he asked his friend that his friend said, people don't talk about you.

Jackson:Yeah totally. That's truly what it is too, I've had to learn is stop being so narcissistic. Nobody's thinking about it, which is the truth, nine times outta 10.

Absent Sounds: Yeah, it's very humbling.

Jackson:That's something I have to remind myself all the time. A good friend- we talk about this stuff and you know, she said before “dude, nobody's thinking about you. You know?”

Absent Sounds: Yeah.

Jackson:And I'm like right, right. I'm in here, no one else is.

Absent Sounds: That reminds me of another question. I know I'm gonna be jumping down a few tracks here, but Neck Tattoo - I know that you don't have a neck tattoo, but a lot of people…or do you? Do you have a secret neck tattoo?

Jackson:I do not, no.

Absent Sounds: A lot of times people can kind of assume these certain things based on people's demeanor and so, you know, people will kind of have these assumptions or think, oh, this is how I'm being perceived by other people. So for you, is there something that you often think people assume that is a trait you wouldn't have based on how you present yourself?

Jackson:I don't know for sure, but I'm balding so I've shaved my head and I don't want people to think I'm a skinhead. That is something I think about a lot. I have to think about what I'm wearing. You know, it's funny, no one tells you this as a bald white bald guy, you do have to think about what you're wearing. You don't wanna look like a neo-Nazi. and so that is something that I think about a lot, like okay, now I'm bald, now I have a shaved head. How do I avoid looking like American history X?

Absent Sounds: Do you wear beanies a lot

Jackson:In the winter? Yeah.

Absent Sounds: Okay.

Jackson:Because it gets cold.

Absent Sounds: Mm-hmm. Yep. Fair enough. It's a stereotypical thing. Every time I see a man with a beanie, I'm like, is he bald or is it the beanie personality type?

Jackson:Right, right. It's probably a little bit of both. I have a hard time with that because in the winter, you need it. 'cause when you don't have hair, you know, so cold. And I don't want to always be a beanie guy. Sometimes. Sometimes I wanna show my bald head. My shaved head. I say I'm not bald, I'm shaved. But I'm bald.

Absent Sounds: I'm gonna jump back up to track number one, actually, because this sets the tone for the entire album: Fear Monger. Where did it come from? Where are these words from

Jackson:I think I wrote them, after the majority of the record was done, I just wanted a spoken word thing that really kind of just says this is exactly what this record is about. In a lot of ways, it's just kind of is talking about my fears and I think when you talk about fears to that degree, they're scarier than what's scaring you, if that makes sense. So yeah, I guess that's sort of how that happened. How the tone of that came across is I sort of started to realize that it's why it's called Fearmonger. The more you talk about your fear, the more it creates fear, in a lot of ways or the, the more you acknowledge them sometimes. And that's my friend Elena and band mate. She dances at my shows. That's her reciting it.

Absent Sounds: To hop along down to track number five or four? Four. Pure gluttony. Is it gluttony of being obsessive about your fears?

Jackson:I think the gluttony of it, of it all is the me in it all. Not me, Jackson, but me. As just everybody's narcissism and, and sort of just filling up, constantly consuming. I think I started to get kind of grossed out with myself and everybody of just filling up on everything all the time. And, yeah, I think that's kind of where that the phrase pure gluttony comes from. It's also another case of ‘I just really how those words looked’ as well. The song itself is kind of about the profile of somebody who's potentially kind of dangerous.

Absent Sounds: It feels a lot of the tracks are

Jackson:Yeah. They are, that is the point, you know, and again, it's, ‘I'm afraid of,’ it's not something I’m saying I am at all. I mean, I'm not an incel, I'm in a relationship Music: Nervous laughter.

Jackson:I haven't really figured out how to talk about this record, in that way because it's, again, it's all these things that I'm just really afraid of. But, yeah, I don't know. I guess that song is sort of the profile and in a way, a weird abstract profile of , and in this sort of incel character, the sort of angry character.

Absent Sounds: we're just laughing constantly.

Jackson:Good. It's supposed to be funny.

Absent Sounds: It really is. I almost feel the entire satirical part of it, is funny, but it's also kind of sad because it hits a little too close to home sometimes. I'm gonna just ask if for number five, Connie, does Connie represent someone in your life?

Jackson:No, not really. I mean, , I think all those songs, all the songs are sort of from like fictional sort of narrators, but they're all drawn from things in my life. So Connie I think is drawn from stuff in my life, but no, Connie's, nobody. She's nobody and everybody. I think throughout the whole record, there's sort of within the end of the world domestic terrorism stuff, there is kind of a love story weaved throughout the whole record. And I think Connie is kind of one of the first times in the record, you're kind of seeing this narrator, talk about , loving and lusting after somebody. I.

Absent Sounds: Do you know the song by [Josh Ritter], it's the one where he's pretty much talking about how it's, it's the end of the world, it's World War iii. And, him and this other girl are in this bunker and they fall in love. But it's the end of the world. And the only reason, is they're about to die.

Jackson:Oh wow. I don't know that song, but that sounds cool. I really like that

Absent Sounds: Yeah, it's kinda a folky one, which is interesting. But I always like the live edition 'cause it almost feels like he's talking to the audience and just telling them a story.

Jackson:As much as it's the record is about these scary macro things and issues and what scares me, it's also like a breakup record too. You know? I wrote it kind of coming out of a breakup.

Absent Sounds: I was actually wondering that because it's a little bit rejecting love

Jackson:It's a, it's a bit of that, I think it's got some of that, I mean the record has been written and done for almost a year, two years. Um. So it's been a while, but yeah, during that time, I mean, I was definitely dealing with feelings of being alone for the first time again and sort of getting over this breakup and that sort of thing.

Absent Sounds: We are at track number six. Which is Revenge the Kraken. There's a part where you say, “we are not human anymore. We're not fish.” So what are we?

Jackson: I don't know. What do you think we are?

Absent Sounds: We are…. That is why I asked. I'm just referencing another book where it's people, they leave their bodies and then they're able to just float around and be, I guess it would be spirits then. But let me ask Weadee. She said we're water.

Jackson:Yeah. That's cool. We are water. We are water. I don't know. I think I was, I don't really know. I don't remember writing that, so I don't know. I think it was sort of just, again, from like a narrator feeling uncomfortable with the way people a treat themselves, but also present and I sound a boomer, but very anti Instagram social media kind of thing. I would say that's what that line is about. It's not really what that song's about.

Absent Sounds: What's, what's the song about?

Jackson: That song is just a lot of bravado, it's like evil bravado, I think, such is Brutus

Absent Sounds: This specific fish line reminded me of the part in the movie Patterson, where he's like “or would you rather be a fish” or something like that?

Jackson:You know what's so funny, I've never seen that movie. I know it. Okay.

Absent Sounds: You should watch,

Jackson:it's a Jim Jarmusch movie, right?

Absent Sounds: No, the main actor is Adam

Jackson:Adam Driver. Yeah. I think it's Jim Jarmusch. No, I've never seen it. And I love Jim Jarmusch. And I love Adam Driver. And it's been on my list.

Absent Sounds: We spoiled nothing. It just says, or would you rather be a fish?

Jackson:I think, you know, as cynical and negative as I can be, I do like being a human. There's a lot of good stuff. I love a lot of things, a lot of people, a lot of food. You know, I love my sleep. I don't want fish sleep. I want human sleep. I want human food. I want, you know, human love, all that stuff.

Jackson:As the record came together, I started to notice that, like half of it is from the perspective of this angry male and I wanted to kind of- oh boy, I'm gonna sound such a dork. But I wanted to like deconstruct that a little bit. If you look at anybody that's really angry, they're just sad, you know? And I think it’s kind of the first point where you're kind of getting a peek into his sadness. Yeah. So that's kind of what the song is about. It's about, why these people are sad. And it's usually because of loneliness and sort of a failed upbringing in a certain way. And that can mean like a million different things. That song is kind of about feeling like you got kind of the short end of the stick as far as generations go. Like yes. It seems like maybe every generation feels this, but I think we got a pretty bad. I say that in my apartment and with clothes on my back and shelter in my head I'm doing okay, but that seem like these, Gen Xers just seem to really have had it made and these boomers as well. I guess that's kinda what that song's about. So it's like the beginning of more introspection

Absent Sounds: This is kind of the part of the album where I started resonating with some of it. I don't know what they were, but the last words…

Jackson:What are they? I don't know.

Absent Sounds: when it comes in and says like “stop saying it's gonna be okay,” or something like that.

Jackson:I say it's gonna be all right a bunch. And then, Carolyn, who is the female vocalist on that song, who's in a band called Carol that you gotta listened too. She's an amazing, amazing songwriter. She sings “don't tell me it's gonna be right.”

Absent Sounds: Any song by her we should

Jackson:Play Change to Survive by Carol. It was a huge inspiration for me, and she's my friend and every time I see her I weep. She's got the most beautiful voice I've ever seen, ever, ever heard. As of such a paranoid, neurotic guy, talking to my parents and people of previous generations, you know, in the past they've been like you know, it's fine. We all said that. And then as things started to get bad during Covid, I remember talking to my parents and being like, this feels really bad, right? And then they were like, yeah, no, this is really bad. It's kind of that dynamic of a younger person talking to an older person, this person saying, it's gonna be okay. I've seen it all seeing tons of crap go down. And the younger person is saying, no, regardless, this is my reality now and it's very scary or it sucks and I feel whatever.

Absent Sounds: When I was listening this song, and first of all it felt a waltz, but in a very dizzying and very beautiful sense where, you know, that also reminded me of how it feels to be with a lot of relationships. Very dizzying, very waltzing and beautiful, but a mess. This is not a manic part, but it's, you know, BPD and other relationship disorders, the messiness of it. So I will leave the floor open to you. Tell us about the song Real.

Jackson:It is called Real Maniac. The song is again, sort of at the tail end of the record where you learn that this angry guy is just so hurt, you know? And it's just heartbroken. It's sort of his own realization that it's his fault in some ways. I've never thought about this, but this record is sort of what I wish would happen to an angry sort of incel type, which is sort of realize that, yeah, maybe other people have hurt you and stuff, but also you're responsible for your own actions and you're responsible for certain things. I think that that's what that song is sort of like acknowledging.

Absent Sounds: We did skip Neck Tattoo- well we talked about it briefly, but this is my little inference while listening, you know, a nice neck tattoo could be a noose and it hangs.

Jackson:That's an interesting interpretation.

Absent Sounds: Rats. I was hoping that you would say that was what it was.

Jackson:No, it's not. That song is sort of inspired by real stuff, but I just wanted to write something about the idea of- I don't know if obsession is the right word, but you know, having a crush on somebody and then sort of being fixated on this one thing about them being ,like , wow, she got a neck tattoo. That's cool. I just thought that was funny. I don't know why. There's no shade to neck tattoos. They're fine, but it's not something in particular that I'm drawn to. So that one I just thought it was funny, to have somebody really be lusting over somebody just because of a tattoo that they have.It's sort of a shallow impulse that I think we all have sometimes.

Absent Sounds: So assuming that having a neck tattoo would be one of the most painful places to get it, I don't know what the scale or the hierarchy of pain is but what is the greatest physical pain that you've ever experienced or felt?

Jackson:I'm like really fair skin. You get sunburnt really easily and I've gotten sun poisoning to the point where-

Absent Sounds: Poison? You can get poisoned by the sun?

Jackson:You can get poisoned by the sun. At least thats me as a child, like on vacation I had blisters on me from the sun and I had to bathe and milk and that was pretty bad. , that was . You know, it's not just a typical sunburn, it was brutal. I couldn't move for like days. I would say that's up there. I would say broke my arm. That wasn't fun.

Absent Sounds: Learning something new every day. Jackson:. Yeah, you gotta be careful. That's how you get skin cancer as a bald man.

Absent Sounds: I feel likr the melanin is, is veryvery blessed. We're very blessed to not have that.

Jackson:Yeah. That it's gotta be nice. I freaking light up the minute I walk outside.

Absent Sounds: I knew some people who got burnt during the eclipse. It was very strange.

Jackson:I was inside, I think it was flying or something. I was on a plane. Or no, I was out of town. I don't remember where I was, but I didn't see it and I didn't know, so I missed it. I didn't know you could get burned from that. I guess it makes sense. I did not get to see the Northern Lights. Oh my God. I was also, I think on a plane.

Absent Sounds: You're gonna be on a plane when the world ends, I think.

Jackson:Oh God. I hope not. That's one of my other biggest fears: flying.

Absent Sounds: As we're nearing the end, I feel like we have to know what other fears you have. You've been alluding to many of your fears along the way.

Jackson:I almost called the record fear Monger and changed it the last second. You wanna know my other fears? Um mm-hmm. Well, death, period. Not into it. I'm getting better. I'm getting a lot better with it. But don't like it. Don't likethe idea of that. It's not being dead. It's dying. Besides being dead, but being sick. Really sick. Planes. I don't like earthquakes. No mass shootings, you know, domestic terrorism? Yeah, those are the big ones. I think

Absent Sounds: I actually unlocked a new fear. What was it yesterday? it's being trapped in your body. Do you know when people can't move but they're fully conscious and fully awake, but they can't move their arms or legs or anything. What is that called?

Jackson:I mean, I know there's sleep paralysis, which is scary and it's happened to me once and I'm not into it. But then there's also, is it dysplasia? Is that what it's called?

Absent Sounds: I don't know what the actual name is- oh, it's just called Locked in syndrome.

Jackson:It's called Locked in Syndrome. Wow, that's really scary. Well, I can't Google that, clearly you can tell, I gotta stay away from WebMD.

Jackson:This track is in a lot of ways, showing you the pain, what happened to this person as well as this person moving on from it. At the same time in my head, in my brain. It kind of goes back and forth from perspectives, from almost sort of line to line. We've devolved from anger to sadness throughout the record. And the end is sort of the ultimate reveal of it is a, it was a romance thing and this person is very hurt and it's also moving on at the same time. Thank you guys so much. These are great questions

Absent Sounds: and thank you so much once again to Jackson Katz for joining us on today's episode