[Transcript is the direct interview with Willow Brazuk and JR, not the episode script!]
Source note: Farewell show recording used in episode: bearvsshaan on youtube, snowing final show - Sam Rudich

Absent Sounds: I think a good place to start is- this summer you guys are playing a few shows that have "friends" in the title. Best Friends Forever Festival, New Friends Fest. So what is the role of friendship in the band Snowing? In the way that it existed in the past and the way that it exists now?

Willow Brazuk: Right. I mean, that's the basis of the band. That's the only thing. And I'm glad to be in it. JR and I, we've known each other since we were five.

JR: Willow is my longest running friend of all time.

Willow Brazuk: We were all friends before we were a band. We all played in other bands and went to each other's shows, grew up in the same scene. It was just natural when we became a band. John and I were in a band together before Snowing, and when we formed Snowing, it was like, we should get JR. Yeah. And that was it. That's a pretty boring story. It's just like, we started a band.

Absent Sounds: Sometimes it's kind of fun to think about the roles of friendships and friend groups. I mean, the different roles of people. So like, one's a funny friend, one's a mom friend. What would you say is your role in your group of friends?

Willow Brazuk: Oh yeah. I'm mom, I suppose.

JR: I feel like I can be dad.

Willow Brazuk: You're dad too. We're band married. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But not in the eyes of the government or anything. Yeah, no, definitely not.

JR: It depends on the circle of friends too, right? In Snowing it's a different context, so you assume a different role.

Willow Brazuk: Yeah, we're all the funny one really. We're all very funny. Have you seen our merch? I don't think nothing would make sense to anyone, because we are jokes maniacs and it's inside jokes. I mean, yeah, that's mostly this band—all inside jokes. The song titles, everything. It's like nothing is serious outside of the content of the lyrics.

Absent Sounds: No, I was gonna say, there's such a weird—maybe it's a lot of dissonance, but it's kind of funny. It's all kind of a joke, but at the same time, a lot of the lyrics, when you go with them, you're like, this is kind of intense. And I don't wanna spend too much time on it yet or ask about it. But I was curious, how was it to exist in a joking manner but also deal with some of the serious stuff you guys are talking about? Is there a weird line you have to cross?

Willow Brazuk: I wish John was here for this, 'cause John writes all of the lyrics, but I think it's sort of like a coping mechanism. You just have to laugh at it. You can't be serious a hundred percent through. That's no fun. I still wanna have fun, but we can talk about very serious stuff, especially the stuff John has been through in his life. It's dark, but we're zero serious outside of that, I would think.

Absent Sounds: I guess that brings me to the idea of the album titles, but also, I guess this is sort of a tangent, but along the same lines—one of my favorite titles of an episode of a podcast was "I Can Quit You," by a Sub Pop records podcast where they're talking to Carissa's Wierd, Jenn Champion, about quitting the band, but also quitting music and quitting life at the same time. I always like that, just the title, "I can quit." It always sticks with me. So with Snowing, you guys have—well, not quit, but disbanded for a while and then came back together. Is music one of those things that you just can't let go of? Or is it something that has its hook in you?

JR: You go first. I've been talking a lot. Yeah. I would say absolutely. During the pandemic was the longest period where I did not play music. I moved from California back to Pennsylvania. I was in a band out there and lost touch with all of that. Came back to PA and had to reconnect with people during a global pandemic. And so for me, it affected me emotionally, like not being able to play music and being around friends. So yeah, it definitely sucked me back in.

Willow Brazuk: Yeah. I mean, after Snowing, I didn't play music for a while. Like seriously. John and I actually started something with John and it just fizzled out. We wrote three or four songs, but it wasn't time, I guess. I just started, tried to start stuff and I was like, I guess I just have to be a person with a job now and just be a normal person. I thought that was me for a while, but eventually you just get drawn back into it. It's tough to stay away from it 'cause it feels good. It's community, and being out of your community is awful, especially when it's self-imposed. But it's great. It's so nice to be back. So glad we can still do this, like pushing 40, which is crazy to think about.

JR: I know.

Willow Brazuk: Here I said pushing 40. I'm three months older than you.

Absent Sounds: There's something about what you said that brought back some of the questions we wanted to ask about the infamous album. Like the title, "I Could Do Whatever I Wanted If I Wanted To." I've had a philosophical dilemma with the title for a while and I wanted to get it cleared up. I could do whatever I wanted, but can you really do whatever you want? How much free will do you actually have? Are you actually able to do what you want? And if so, did you want to keep making music but you weren't able to? Is that like a—did you wake up one day and you're like, I actually can't do it? Where does that line—I keep asking where the line is, but you know what I'm saying?

Willow Brazuk: Yeah. I mean, as far as the title goes, I think Nate came up with that. Nate, who's not in the band anymore. We're still friends, obviously. I bet it was another inside joke that felt more meaningful to other people. Maybe it took on meaning as we go, but it makes sense. I don't know.

JR: I think it was—

Absent Sounds: Okay. So it was bothering me for no reason. I'm really sorry.

JR: The lyrics have a truer deep meaning. They're usually just Arrested Development jokes or Simpsons jokes or inside jokes.

Willow Brazuk: Yeah, I think that was it. Nate said it and we're like, that's funny. Actually, that should be the title. Can I just say one funny story about a song title? This is my favorite one. "KJ Jamin" is named that because Nate had a dream that we wrote a song, and in the dream we titled it "KJ Jamin." So when we wrote the next song, it was like, we gotta use that. So it means nothing. It just was from a dream.

Absent Sounds: Okay. Well then in that case, I wanna know—I'm gonna go down through the list and I wanna know whatever you can recall.

Willow Brazuk: I think I can do it. You think you can? I think I can.

Absent Sounds: So we're gonna start off with track number one then. "I Think We're in Minsk."

Willow Brazuk: That's from a BBC show called Black Books. It's just like a line. This will come back up again.

Absent Sounds: Number two, "Mark Z. Danielewski."

Willow Brazuk: Yeah, Mark wrote that book, House of Leaves, which John read and loved and I've read. I guess it's because we name drop House of Leaves, so I was like, let's name it after the author's.

Absent Sounds: Do you remember anything from the book or anything that sticks to you?

Willow Brazuk: That book terrified me. I used to work in a furniture store in a warehouse, and I read most of it there. I felt like, wow, this is giving me existential dread. I feel like there are demons with me. And it's in a brightly lit warehouse. Yeah, it's—I love that book. I always try to reread it, but it's too much.

Absent Sounds: There was also a part where you guys talk about Boston in Canada because this is the first time you guys are playing in Canada, supposedly. What are your thoughts? Is it anything like Boston?

Willow Brazuk: I famously don't really like Boston, so yes, anything is better. Also, anything is better than the United States of America in its current incarnation. So yes. Canada's a wonderful place. Everyone here is as nice as I want to be to other people, so I feel like people match my energy and I don't feel embarrassed for being too nice.

JR: Yeah, I just went to the grocery store and then I went to go pick up food and the two encounters I had at both of those places, everyone was so kind, like abnormally kind.

Willow Brazuk: I've talked to someone here, I turn to everyone. I'm like, they were so nice. Every time you realize that's just how people should be. I live in Philadelphia where people are cruel and mean.

Absent Sounds: So it's kind of funny 'cause when I think of Philadelphia, I'm always like, Philly seems nice.

Willow Brazuk: Philly is like jerks with hearts of gold. I feel like sometimes it gets a little tiresome. But I would rather everyone's just a little cooler to each other. We come through when it matters.

Absent Sounds: Some of us were not fortunate enough to be born during the time when you guys were active. What was the scene like at that time, if you could put your body back in that era?

JR: The scene was wonderful. When we were a band and active, it was like all of our friends were there. I had a house where we did shows and two blocks away, all the Algernon folks and their friends had a big giant warehouse. And they did shows there. And that felt like the pinnacle of the community. It felt very, very nice. Then people started to move away. But at the same time it felt like people were rotating in and there were a lot of people moving to Philly and participating in the scene. It was a really, really fun time.

Absent Sounds: I know we kind of love the metaphor of the emo house. What floor do you think—or where do you think the music that Snowing creates lives within a house? Is it in the den? Is it in the attic? The basement? Living room?

Willow Brazuk: What a question.

JR: I mean, mine's the master bedroom because that's where we had all the Model Home shows.

Willow Brazuk: We did a lot in a bedroom.

JR: We're the basement, I guess. The basement.

Willow Brazuk: Yeah. I mean, that's an easy answer though. We just played in basements so many times.

JR: It wasn't a basement at the Model Home, it was top floor, an apartment on a second floor, bedroom. And shows there always felt very illegal.

Willow Brazuk: Pretty sure they literally are. But I was like, I don't know how the cops don't show up every time. Only once.

JR: Either us or Algernon. It was Algernon. And then I just have a picture of a cop who couldn't get into the room because it was so packed, all the way down the hallway. It was just packed full of people and they literally couldn't get into the room. And so this cop's just standing outside. It was pretty great.

Absent Sounds: There was another question I wanted to ask on the flip side—kind of just what it was like when it ended for you. Is it better to disintegrate in ashes and flames and have a big fight when things end? Or is it better to just fade away? Which one is worse?

Willow Brazuk: I think it's worse to fade out because it's more painful. It just gets sadder and sadder and you slowly realize over time, it's like a professional athlete as they get older every year they're just like, well, I'm a little bit worse than last year. Eventually I can't do this anymore. I think that's what it ends up for a lot of bands. I didn't really wanna stop when we broke up, but I think we just had to. We went on a really long tour with too many people in one van. We didn't know how to tour yet. We didn't learn how to do that together effectively. But I agree. I think it was better to just cut it. But it wasn't we're done with songs, you know, it was just like, I don't wanna see any of you for a year or 15 years maybe. But yeah, it's much different now. We've learned how to do this right. This is my favorite era of the band. It's very, very nice.

Absent Sounds: That's interesting you mentioned that you guys didn't know how to tour yet. I was thinking about towards the end of the album, one of the lines—what does doing your best look like when you're in your twenties or thirties versus when you're older? How does doing your best look as a band then versus now?

JR: You go first. I don't have a good one. I have to brainstorm.

Willow Brazuk: I think doing our best is very different now from back then. I think when we were younger, we were just having fun, not super thinking about other people necessarily. It was just like, we wanna go on tour, we wanna make friends, play cool shows. We drank a lot, way too much. And probably didn't always play the best. But now I'm very aware of—we got more popular after we broke up. I always tell people I'm in a cult emo band. That's very accurate. But now I know there's bigger stakes. I just want people to hear us play well. Because maybe they've been waiting for a long time. I want to do well. I want people to come and not be angry that they spent money and we were dog shit.

JR: I was afraid to take it too seriously at that time. It felt like selling out. Now at this point it's okay to take this seriously. People are coming out to these shows. Not take it seriously in a negative way, but take it seriously in a way that you care a little bit more for the music and the community. That's definitely a maturing aspect of this.

Absent Sounds: You know, it kind of reminds me of invalidating yourself. Because sometimes I don't wanna take myself seriously, but when I do it's because I'm caring forward of me.

JR: I wish I would've figured that out sooner, honestly.

Willow Brazuk: I think taking yourself seriously means you have to know yourself and see yourself for who you really are. But jokey stuff has always been a defense thing for us. Because I think it was like we couldn't commit to it a hundred percent. Part of this needs to be like, well, whatever. Leftover nineties slacker energy. I just listened to too much Pavement growing up. But yeah, it was like people who take their band seriously are lame. In retrospect I'm like, you were just trying to not have a day job and that is okay.

Willow Brazuk: We cannot exist outside of capitalism. You have to play the game. It's not a game and I don't want to play it. It's awful. It actively encourages you not to make art in America. I know it's better in Canada, y'all give money to artists. I think in the US especially, they would probably rather you didn't make art or say anything that is meaningful or emotional or carries a message. It's getting worse. You just have to have a job and pay your bills. So little time to pursue anything or participate in art. And that's sad, but we know you do your best.

Paul: There was a point in time where I started noticing you guys having more of an internet presence. It seemed like you had a mini revival or something. Was there a point in time when you felt that before you started to jump back online?

Willow Brazuk: Yeah. I noticed it too, like that wave of emo crested and there was another one. You know, everything's cyclical. Even the styles of emo and screamo within this scene are recycled. But I did notice people still listen to this. People still buy the records. We keep needing to press more of them. It never died down completely. That's really special and crazy. It's not normal.

JR: Too many of us have had other bands since then that have not had that long of a tail. It's one of those things that with time you realize, oh, this is something that is special in a way that is really difficult to cultivate with these other bands. It means something.

Willow Brazuk: We're cashing it emotionally. That's why I wanna do it. I'm coming to have a nice time and hopefully make people happy. That's it right now.

Paul: When we were on the topic of the song titles and the jokingness of the band, I was wondering if you guys have heard of the meme and the fandom of "Melissa Core" — who is Melissa?

Willow Brazuk: We need John for that and I cannot comment for her. It's a real person, obviously. That's for him. I also would a hundred percent know he would not tell you. It's kind of even better.

Zac: Are you aware of the band Camping in Alaska and their song, "Why Can't I Be Snowing?" And if you are aware of it, did you become aware of it way after the band dissolved or was it something that you were cognizant of around the time?

Willow Brazuk: I found out about that way after. I mean, it's weird, but not in a bad way. It's very flattering, but it's also just like, I can't believe someone thought about that enough or cared enough to do that. It's nice to be thought of.

Zac: What bands inspired Snowing? Was it local bands in the Philly scene? Was it pulling from stuff that you heard from the nineties?

Willow Brazuk: A few of us were in Street Smart Cyclist before Snowing, and that was straight up Cap'n Jazz worship. But nobody was doing that at the time. That band was supposed to be a summer, fun while home from college thing. Bear versus Shark was really big, so it was crazy just going on that tour with them. At the Drive-In was a really big one. Nirvana was a big one.

JR: Of hardcore post hardcore for myself — I will say on record, I don't think I had heard Cap'n Jazz when Snowing started. So when people started comparing the band to Cap'n Jazz, I was like, what is a Cap'n Jazz?

Willow Brazuk: My big emo touch point was Braid. That was my favorite band for a very long time. I worshiped that band. I still love them. Got to see them play on a floor last year, in a fire hall situation. I think hardcore bands were a big thing. The Lehigh Valley was a big hardcore scene. I always think we sound like a hardcore band. We wanted to leave behind the tinny, clean tone constantly. I want it to be loud. I think that's why it worked. It was different enough. Nineties indie rock—Pavement, Archers of Loaf, Superchunk. That's been my favorite band for the longest time. That's a huge influence on me.

Zac: Where did the band name come from?

Willow Brazuk: We actually got asked this yesterday. We gotta make sure our stories match. I think we were really struggling to name the band. I think John and I were at the point where we were really free associating, just pointing at things. I think it was winter and I think it was raining, snowing. It was like, that sounds pretty, but it was like, oh, that's a verb though. Can we name a band that?

JR: Part of the Snowing name story was we practiced at the time at Nate's mom's house, and Nate's very French grandmother was over at the house. She came downstairs right after we had named the band, and she was like, what's the name of the band? We're like, Snowing. And she's like, oh, like cocaine? And we're like, no, no, no. No cocaine.

JR: Obviously in the winter time, there's something warm, cozy, put your big jacket on and go trudge out to a cold show and play a cold basement show in Philly. It's got that kind of vibe I guess, which is totally in retrospect. Emo's a fall winter for me. Totally agree.

Absent Sounds: The final question I'll ask is, the year is 2050. It is snowing. You think of the band — what do you wanna remember from it or from this moment today here at New Friends Fest?

JR: Good memories with friends. Looking back on it and getting to do this is not something everybody gets to do. It's very special. I get to reflect on and think about all the different shows we played. It's a really great feeling when you're up there and everybody's singing along. Just getting to spend that time with friends in a really positive way.

Willow Brazuk: Same for me. I think we're just making memories now. That's usually what we agree to when someone asks us to do something, it's just like, is that gonna be a cool, fun thing that we're gonna remember or is that gonna feel like a slog and an obligation? We're pretty picky right now and we don't wanna overdo it. I want this to always feel good in retrospect and while we're doing it.

JR: I think we all have just pretty standard, normal go to work lives. I have a family now and my kids and everything and there's a routine with all that. So this breaks that up and it's really special.

Willow Brazuk: This is the most important, coolest thing any of us have done. And on the grand scale of things, it's not like we cured a disease or invented anything. But you know what—

Absent Sounds: Sometimes I think maybe there's a doctor in here that needed time to relax and just came to the show.

Willow Brazuk: That's curative. We helped. Don't give us big heads.

Absent Sounds: Thank you. Fade to black.